IQ vs. being successful

Discussion in 'General Discussions' started by lasergirl, Mar 10, 2019.

  1. #1 lasergirl, Mar 10, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2019
    I’ve always been fascinated by very intelligent, gifted people. I’m a hard worker and reasonably talented scientist, but nothing ever comes easy to me, my modest success so far has been a combination of perseverance, grit and luck. Studying hard to pass exams has been a necessity at university. This came as a huge shock to me initially, because in high school I’ve been considered gifted and everything was so easy without studying, so 17-year old me had gotten used to the assumption that successful people are innately talented. I almost gave up university when I suddenly was in a world where actual hard work was the minimum requirement for my success. I thought “well obviously I’m not as gifted, talented and smart as I thought, and thus not cut out to be a scientist.”
    It took me years to learn that “having talent” is not a fixture somebody is born with, it’s the result of dedication and hard work.

    What is your experience with this topic? Are you gifted? A hard worker? Both? Did you go to a gifted program in your school? I didn’t because it would have required me to change school. Did it ever hinder your personal growth to be considered gifted because you avoided anything that you weren’t innately good at?

    My impression is that people look down on somebody like me who is “just a hard worker” compared to somebody who seems innately oh-so-talented (as I was in high school).
     
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  2. I’m neither gifted nor hardworking. I’m merely a stack of toads in a trench coat trying to imitate a functioning member of society.
     
  3. Aren’t we all? :)
    Professionaly I constantly feel like the poor guy in this comic.
    IMG_0922.jpg
     
  4. Yeah that was why I dropped out of college the first time I was in college... I had absolutely no clue how to study for a test. In high school that meant "glance at notes for 2 minutes while waiting for teacher to hand out exams".... turns out that doesn't work in college :emoji_upside_down:
     
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  5. i have a high IQ, my siblings have high IQs (we took the WISC as kids, scored in the 130-140 range). tbh, it was nice when we were kids, we did really well in school. i didn’t have to do my homework to get a decent grade because i did well on my tests.

    i can learn foreign languages easily, i’m very good with computers. i’m horrible at math.

    however, i was lazy as hell and that hit me big-time in college. i didn’t know how to study properly, so i had to become a hard worker to get where i wanted to be.

    at work, i think the hard workers who are passionate about their work are the ones who do the best.

    the smart ones will be able to do the work and can be trained quickly, but the hard workers give you the quality work.

    the hard workers are the ones who you want to promote.

    the hard workers usually (but not always) have better soft skills.

    ideally, i’d want to work with a smart and hard-working person. i never want to work with a lazy person.

    IQ is a measurement of potential/ it’s not a measure of discipline. discipline is what you need to do well as an adult (unless you’re insanely rich).
     
  6. I agree that discipline is more important than innate intelligence. I would argue that even people who inherit great wealth need discipline and skills to maintain and grow their assets, or else they will soon squander it away.

    Speaking of innate intelligence, I believe that IQ is a much less useful measurement and much less meaningful quantity than most people assume.

    IQ, as you know, is supposed to measure the raw smarts you're born with, regardless of any learning you may have done. But the human brain learns. That's it's job. So what would a brain even be exactly without any learning? IQ also assumes that no learning occurs before birth, which we know now is not true. Babies can and do learn in the womb. On the flip side, factors like poor nutrition, parental neglect, early sensory deprivation, and exposure to toxins can negatively effect IQ.

    If IQ tests measured your inborn intelligence potential, then it should be impossible to improve your score. But people can easily improve their performance on IQ tests with practice. So if you can learn to do better on the test, is the test actually measuring something you can't learn?

    Moreover, there are multiple domains of intelligence (one popular educational psychologist, Gardner, categorized seven domains). Common IQ tests only even attempt to measure 2-3. How meaningful is an intelligence score that ignores the majority of intelligence domains?

    Another point is that it has been repeatedly demonstrated that IQ tests are culturally biased. The patterns of thinking and problem solving that we learn as we're growing up affect how we respond to the questions, and how good we are at answering questions similar to ones we've encountered before.

    We all sense that some people are innately more cognitively gifted than others, at least within the same area of intelligence. The question is, is that difference measurable and quantifiable, or is intelligence something too fluid to be assigned an integer?
    In my opinion, that not only are the tests of questionable validity, but even the underlying concept (that intelligence without learning exists and can be measured with a test) deserves doubt. This, learning, is where "work" intersects with "smarts." I don't think you can really tease the two apart, at least not in any practical way.

    I'm not impressed by people's natural giftedness, but by their effort and dedication. Innate giftedness, such as it is, is given, not earned. And I consider what one has earned to be far more meaningful.
     
  7. I have an IQ of a 110. Lol. It’s average which is fine I guess. I’m talented with fine arts and writing, but I’m far from successful. I really fucked up my life.
     
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  8. I work hard at work, but I didn’t throughout high school becuase my depression was a lot worse then.
    I used to play piano, I love piano and I can never understand why I stopped.
    I love football, and the only reason I’m not playing this year is becuase I need contacts or I’ll be super blind on the field.
    I guess my perfected talent is procrastination
     
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  9. personally i think having my IQ tested as a kid made me more lazy. i already had it "confirmed" that i was smart at age 6 so why try?
    now i know that IQ means very little, my family however still puts a lot of pressure on me to preform at a higher level just because i could see patterns better then average. For reference, i tested in the 130's-140's and thus was put in the accelerated program from grades 3-7.

    This tied a lot of my self worth to academic achievement and paired with my un-diagnosed ADHD caused a lot of problems internally.
    "smart but lazy" was my mothers favorite way to describe me, might still be but im trying to care less.
    everyone is disappointed i didnt become a doctor.
     
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  10. never had my IQ tested *shrugs*

    I was testing in college levels for reading, writing and comprehension in 7th grade. But I tested HORRIBLY in math. always have.
    I was homeschooled for 7th & 8th grade due to bullying
    I went back to public school for 9th grade and left at the end of the year to finish my classes online. I graduated a year early.
    I'm not talented nor hard working. Not gifted in anything. No job. Never been to college. I've worked for a corporate company making good money and living on my own. I quit that job because my mental health was at it's breaking point and I was extremely suicidal. My job was a large factor in it because it sucked lol.

    I used to be really jealous of my sister because she got amazing grades and went to college and has a /big girl/ job but she is the dumbest mf i've ever seen, literally 0 common sense. People can be really intelligent but ABSOLUTE idiots.
    People can flunk out of high school and be successful and happy and comfortable in life.

    All in all, people will ALWAYS look down on you for something. Surround yourself with people who build you up for EVERYTHING.
    You don't gotta be a rocket scientist to have a full life and be prosperous.

    I could go on and on about this but you're wonderful. Go get a bath bomb and sit in the bath and radiate in your awesomeness.
     
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  11. TL;DR: I have Imposter Syndrome

    I was placed in a gifted program in 1st grade. I continued to be in gifted classes throughout high school and ended up going to college with 30 credits (a year of college) already in my pocket. I never worked thaaat hard in high school. If I was interested in a topic I'd learn more about it and do well. Then in classes I wasn't that good at, such as band(I was in the top band but not musically talented so I didn't try), I'd stare blankly at my director as he begged me to please please use vibrato in my solo. I took the SAT once without studying, applied to one college, and that was that.

    Now, even tho I was naturally good at school, I was still a hard worker. I worked in a restaurant 11th and 12th grade about 30 hours a week, I did sports. I was good at cramming before tests.

    So I've been doing well in college but I always have a similar pattern each semester: do well on the first test, bomb the second test, "o shit I'm gonna fail out of college", get an A and repeat next semester. The worst part tho is how damn SMART everyone thinks I am.

    Since literally elementary school when a teacher pulled me aside to give me a journal to write stories in, people have fawned over how smart I am. "Oh Mitzi is so clever! Mitzi always gets the 100 in the class! Ask Mitzi, she'll know the answer! Mitzi will be a famous author! Mitzi is going to get into the best grad school! Mitzi will publish so much research!"

    And you know I don't want to sound stuck up or ungrateful but fucking hell the pressure is immense. What's worse is I get these expectations of myself that are impossible to meet. I have no clue what these people see in me. I have professors who have tried to recruit me to their lab for grad school, and I broke down crying when I got a 76 on a test in a class with a Prof I respect and he just wrote my name next to a question. I can't handle this disappointment. That's why I wanted to go to grad school somewhere new with people who don't expect me to be so damn smart. Cus I'm really not.

    Um. Sorry for that rant. Idk my IQ, but I'd say I'm slightly above average
     
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  12. #12 pizzaeater, Mar 14, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2019
    I honestly consider myself lucky, in the sense that I'm curious about the world so that keeps me afloat. I'm not by any means naturally gifted. In high school I barely made it (I ditched a lot, didn't study, etc). I took honors and APs but due to my low self esteem I wasn't fooled into thinking I could not study and get good grades. In college now, I don't know how I have attained relatively good grades. I DO put in work but not as much as I should. I just really like academic subjects and am super curious about shit. I wanna know about stuff. Plus I think education is important so that helps too.

    TL:DR: I don't categorize myself as an intelligent individual more like a curious semi-hard worker lol

    Edit: I was just thinking maybe I don't think I work as hard because I have low self esteem and compare myself to my peers. I know you may think it's unrelated but for me it.
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  13. I've never looked down on those who gained knowledge through hard work, yes some people are quicker to learn but I personally think we can all achieve "smartness". I have a ton of more respect for people who had to put in work vs quicker learners(no offence to them, we all have our place haha).


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  14. YESSSSS SAME

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  15. I'm the complete opposite.
    I've always admired hard workers, as well as people who are able to commit themselves to one discipline/goal and excel in it.
    Quite early on I was labelled as a super-talented kid. On the flip side - also the one with adhd and interest in almost all subjects. I've always found it hard te decide where my efforts should go. So in the end I know a lot of irrelevant stuff but I don't consider myself a specialist in anything. I had individual teaching from some subjects and i'm grateful for that because I could do more college-level stuff during high-school (time-saving and also allowed me stay focused more easily).
    I got my IQ tested and joined a fancy club for people who also happened to get high scores. And I'm the first one to say - iq tests measure just one type of intelligence and in general are in no way a predictor of sb becoming "successful". If anything, I feel like people who have some parts of brain highly developed almost always "pay a price" for it (by having other parts underdeveloped, e.g. poor social skills but many others as well).
    Also - if you learn sth faster than others, are you going to actually use that extra time to do sth productive? Or just spend it procrastinating?
     
  16. Thank you for all of your replies. I read all of them and am fascinated with your perspectives on the topic. Keep them coming :)
    I guess it says a lot about me that I got too intimitated to reply!
     
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